Comments on: Another Set That Might Be Foldable (or not River Shovable Anyway) http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2010/02/another-set-that-might-be-foldable-or-not-river-shovable-anyway/ Poker strategy blog, poker book reviews, trip reports and more! Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:59:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Chris M http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2010/02/another-set-that-might-be-foldable-or-not-river-shovable-anyway/#comment-4154 Chris M Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:29:16 +0000 http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=4306#comment-4154 I thought about this hand a little, it can't be a bad shove with 55 without a solid read on hero's game and the fish's calling range being significantly wide. Even if hero isn't ever calling with a worse hand, you only have 3 combos in your range villain plausibly loses to, whereas fish's range is significantly wide and probably pays off enough to make a shove ok. So yeah, like you said, even if he can't shove for value vs you, there's likely enough value vs the fish to make it ok. If you ever peel flop with something like a gutty or pair + FD (67ss, 78ss, KQss) he can probably show a profit given your not calling this river bet 100% I thought about this hand a little, it can’t be a bad shove with 55 without a solid read on hero’s game and the fish’s calling range being significantly wide.

Even if hero isn’t ever calling with a worse hand, you only have 3 combos in your range villain plausibly loses to, whereas fish’s range is significantly wide and probably pays off enough to make a shove ok.

So yeah, like you said, even if he can’t shove for value vs you, there’s likely enough value vs the fish to make it ok.

If you ever peel flop with something like a gutty or pair + FD (67ss, 78ss, KQss) he can probably show a profit given your not calling this river bet 100%

]]> By: foucault http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2010/02/another-set-that-might-be-foldable-or-not-river-shovable-anyway/#comment-4153 foucault Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:57:29 +0000 http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=4306#comment-4153 Thanks for the comment, Kitty. It's definitely close no matter what. It's definitely easier for BB to call flop and turn with me calling rather than leading out. I don't know about the river- IMO it looks stronger for me to bet than check, but God knows what or whether a fish would be thinking. Thanks for the comment, Kitty. It’s definitely close no matter what. It’s definitely easier for BB to call flop and turn with me calling rather than leading out. I don’t know about the river- IMO it looks stronger for me to bet than check, but God knows what or whether a fish would be thinking.

]]> By: foucault http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2010/02/another-set-that-might-be-foldable-or-not-river-shovable-anyway/#comment-4151 foucault Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:52:50 +0000 http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=4306#comment-4151 He can't shove for value vs. me. The complication, and the reason I played this way, is that BB is a super-fish. I think that makes it a lot closer for Villain, since he doesn't necessarily need to be ahead of my calling range to show a profit. He can’t shove for value vs. me. The complication, and the reason I played this way, is that BB is a super-fish. I think that makes it a lot closer for Villain, since he doesn’t necessarily need to be ahead of my calling range to show a profit.

]]> By: Chris M http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2010/02/another-set-that-might-be-foldable-or-not-river-shovable-anyway/#comment-4148 Chris M Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:34:01 +0000 http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=4306#comment-4148 There's no hand UTG is leading turn with that isn't shoving this river for value when checked to. I agree this isn't a value-shove with 55. Every combo draw hero could have peeled given pre-flop has hit. QTss, 67ss are ahead, and KQss (discounted) is never calling river. K9hh is the only hand hero villain beats that gets to this river given hero's line. There’s no hand UTG is leading turn with that isn’t shoving this river for value when checked to.

I agree this isn’t a value-shove with 55. Every combo draw hero could have peeled given pre-flop has hit. QTss, 67ss are ahead, and KQss (discounted) is never calling river.

K9hh is the only hand hero villain beats that gets to this river given hero’s line.

]]> By: KittyLiquor http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2010/02/another-set-that-might-be-foldable-or-not-river-shovable-anyway/#comment-4146 KittyLiquor Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:47:57 +0000 http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=4306#comment-4146 But the fish is more likely to call with you leading -vs- a shove, call? Besides, if UTG folds, he gets the "was I bluffed?" vibe started. :) Poker is soooo much easier away from the table. (but still hard, for me anyway, lol) I think it's probably pretty close no matter how it's played. PS. Tell your girlfriend/webmaster it's 2010! (copyright at bottom of page. hehe) But the fish is more likely to call with you leading -vs- a shove, call?

Besides, if UTG folds, he gets the “was I bluffed?” vibe started. :)

Poker is soooo much easier away from the table. (but still hard, for me anyway, lol) I think it’s probably pretty close no matter how it’s played.

PS. Tell your girlfriend/webmaster it’s 2010! (copyright at bottom of page. hehe)

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