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	Comments on: On Valentine&#8217;s Day	</title>
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	<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/</link>
	<description>Weekly poker podcast hosted by Andrew Brokos and Nate Meyvis featuring interviews with famous and behind-the-scenes figures from the poker world as well as an in-depth poker strategy segment.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Andy		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25030</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-25030</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25009&quot;&gt;foucault&lt;/a&gt;.

I do not have really opinion I have blur.
You made good point.My comments were just my own idiotic musing.&quot;I have nothing to say and I&#039;m going to say it.&quot;
The only think I am sure that the increased role and prominence of Halloween in USA and the rest of the world.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25009">foucault</a>.</p>
<p>I do not have really opinion I have blur.<br />
You made good point.My comments were just my own idiotic musing.&#8221;I have nothing to say and I&#8217;m going to say it.&#8221;<br />
The only think I am sure that the increased role and prominence of Halloween in USA and the rest of the world.</p>
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		<title>
		By: foucault		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25010</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[foucault]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-25010</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24972&quot;&gt;todd&lt;/a&gt;.

I agree that it&#039;s nice to have an impetus to focus on your significant other(s), your mother, your father, etc. I think it&#039;s unfortunate the way guilt, obligation, anxiety, and other social pressures are harnessed to produce a churn of consumerism. Hopefully you&#039;re close enough to at least a few people to cut through the BS and make clear to each other what is and is not actually important to you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24972">todd</a>.</p>
<p>I agree that it&#8217;s nice to have an impetus to focus on your significant other(s), your mother, your father, etc. I think it&#8217;s unfortunate the way guilt, obligation, anxiety, and other social pressures are harnessed to produce a churn of consumerism. Hopefully you&#8217;re close enough to at least a few people to cut through the BS and make clear to each other what is and is not actually important to you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: foucault		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25009</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[foucault]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-25009</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24989&quot;&gt;Andy&lt;/a&gt;.

You&#039;re probably aware that plenty of people complain that Halloween is losing its &quot;true meaning&quot; as well, ie that is increasingly about either dressing up as a branded character (for children) or something sexy and/or topical (for adults) rather than doing anything scary, pulling pranks, etc. Naturally both of these types of costumes are available pre-packaged.

But I don&#039;t mean to make any claims about true meaning. It&#039;s more a musing on why people who see a blatant marketing tactic for what it is go along with it anyway.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24989">Andy</a>.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re probably aware that plenty of people complain that Halloween is losing its &#8220;true meaning&#8221; as well, ie that is increasingly about either dressing up as a branded character (for children) or something sexy and/or topical (for adults) rather than doing anything scary, pulling pranks, etc. Naturally both of these types of costumes are available pre-packaged.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t mean to make any claims about true meaning. It&#8217;s more a musing on why people who see a blatant marketing tactic for what it is go along with it anyway.</p>
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		<title>
		By: foucault		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25008</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[foucault]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-25008</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25001&quot;&gt;Pat Barnes&lt;/a&gt;.

Good advice! Too bad you&#039;re probably my only female reader :--)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25001">Pat Barnes</a>.</p>
<p>Good advice! Too bad you&#8217;re probably my only female reader :&#8211;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: cbeak		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25007</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cbeak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-25007</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25001&quot;&gt;Pat Barnes&lt;/a&gt;.

The first line of your post really made me laugh... for quite a while. Thanks for that little seva, Pat.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25001">Pat Barnes</a>.</p>
<p>The first line of your post really made me laugh&#8230; for quite a while. Thanks for that little seva, Pat.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pat Barnes		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-25001</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pat Barnes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-25001</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For cbeak, I chuckled to myself as I thought, &quot;there&#039;s a guy who really knows how to avoid the subject altogether:)&quot; First, obligatory holidays with expectations are the perfect setup for disappointments and resentments. My heart goes out to all the single (not by choice), lonely, etc. people. For singles and folks who don&#039;t want to make the traditional plans, perhaps the best gift we can give is seva, or selfless service. It&#039;s true that giving of ourselves is healing to us a givers at least as much as it is for the receivers. Do you have an elderly neighbor who would enjoy a meal that you prepared and shared? Maybe there is a day care center or animal shelter, or another cause you support. As for couples, I agree with Andrew that the woman needs to tell the man that she really doesn&#039;t want purchased gifts. I let hubby off the hook suggesting that we prepare a home-cooked, heart-healthy meal together. Women, we may need to plan the menu, bring the groceries home and take the initiative but we can start a healthier, more heartfelt tradition. Good luck for all your future holidays...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For cbeak, I chuckled to myself as I thought, &#8220;there&#8217;s a guy who really knows how to avoid the subject altogether:)&#8221; First, obligatory holidays with expectations are the perfect setup for disappointments and resentments. My heart goes out to all the single (not by choice), lonely, etc. people. For singles and folks who don&#8217;t want to make the traditional plans, perhaps the best gift we can give is seva, or selfless service. It&#8217;s true that giving of ourselves is healing to us a givers at least as much as it is for the receivers. Do you have an elderly neighbor who would enjoy a meal that you prepared and shared? Maybe there is a day care center or animal shelter, or another cause you support. As for couples, I agree with Andrew that the woman needs to tell the man that she really doesn&#8217;t want purchased gifts. I let hubby off the hook suggesting that we prepare a home-cooked, heart-healthy meal together. Women, we may need to plan the menu, bring the groceries home and take the initiative but we can start a healthier, more heartfelt tradition. Good luck for all your future holidays&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andy		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24989</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-24989</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In her 1850 book  Harriet Stowe includes a character who complains that the true meaning of Christmas was lost in a shopping spree.
Are you  a character who suggests that Valentine&#039;s day goes to the same category?
I see a blur.
Valentines mirrors the image of Halloween.Halloween mirrors the image of Christmas. Christmas mirrors the image of Valentines.
The key mirrored aspects.
Costumes and Exchange : 
In Christmas: Adult &quot;Santa Claus&quot; extort good behavior from children with threats that rewards of durable goods will be withheld
In Halloween: Children with masks and costumes extort treats of non durable goods from adults with &quot;threats of property destruction&quot;
In Valentine: Adults or children in sexy (in)outfits  exchange durable and non-durable goods with sexual gratitude expected. 

Rituals:
In Christmas:The extended family meets for a day of feasting (on wholesome foods) with a traditionally family or religious focus.
In Halloween: Children leave home and family to join other children for an evening of pranks in order to obtain unwholesome sweets in a nonreligious atmosphere. 
In Valentines: Two people meets for intimate meal and mandatory sex after the meal.  

Gifts:
In Christmas rituals gifts are exchanged within the family and each one is personally and lovingly acknowledged.
In Halloween rituals non-family members provide gifts to masked and anonymous children who pose a vague menace.
In Valentines rituals two people exchange gifts with sexual undertones often .

The trends:
The meaning is not only one attribute who changed over time.
The significance and prominence of Halloween and Valentines is growing really fast in contemporary America.
Still Christmas is Nr1 as consumption holiday.
The trends from America are copied fast by the rest of the world.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In her 1850 book  Harriet Stowe includes a character who complains that the true meaning of Christmas was lost in a shopping spree.<br />
Are you  a character who suggests that Valentine&#8217;s day goes to the same category?<br />
I see a blur.<br />
Valentines mirrors the image of Halloween.Halloween mirrors the image of Christmas. Christmas mirrors the image of Valentines.<br />
The key mirrored aspects.<br />
Costumes and Exchange :<br />
In Christmas: Adult &#8220;Santa Claus&#8221; extort good behavior from children with threats that rewards of durable goods will be withheld<br />
In Halloween: Children with masks and costumes extort treats of non durable goods from adults with &#8220;threats of property destruction&#8221;<br />
In Valentine: Adults or children in sexy (in)outfits  exchange durable and non-durable goods with sexual gratitude expected. </p>
<p>Rituals:<br />
In Christmas:The extended family meets for a day of feasting (on wholesome foods) with a traditionally family or religious focus.<br />
In Halloween: Children leave home and family to join other children for an evening of pranks in order to obtain unwholesome sweets in a nonreligious atmosphere.<br />
In Valentines: Two people meets for intimate meal and mandatory sex after the meal.  </p>
<p>Gifts:<br />
In Christmas rituals gifts are exchanged within the family and each one is personally and lovingly acknowledged.<br />
In Halloween rituals non-family members provide gifts to masked and anonymous children who pose a vague menace.<br />
In Valentines rituals two people exchange gifts with sexual undertones often .</p>
<p>The trends:<br />
The meaning is not only one attribute who changed over time.<br />
The significance and prominence of Halloween and Valentines is growing really fast in contemporary America.<br />
Still Christmas is Nr1 as consumption holiday.<br />
The trends from America are copied fast by the rest of the world.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nomanr		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24986</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nomanr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-24986</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Spot on.

In the old days, gifts (generally) meant something.  You exchanged things of value that were not otherwise accessible to the other person, or group of people.  Gift giving had a purpose and was an exchange of value and sincerity.

Buying crap at the store doesn&#039;t show your love, and doesn&#039;t serve any purpose other than to further the consumerist bullshit that is one of the worst travesties of capitalism.

Forget the cards that someone else designed and wrote, the flowers someone else grew and cut, the chocolates someone else made and stuffed with refined sugar.  What does that shit mean, anyway?  

Take the time to make something yourself, if you want to give a gift, or simply take your loved one for a walk on the beach and share some moments together which are infinitely more precious.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on.</p>
<p>In the old days, gifts (generally) meant something.  You exchanged things of value that were not otherwise accessible to the other person, or group of people.  Gift giving had a purpose and was an exchange of value and sincerity.</p>
<p>Buying crap at the store doesn&#8217;t show your love, and doesn&#8217;t serve any purpose other than to further the consumerist bullshit that is one of the worst travesties of capitalism.</p>
<p>Forget the cards that someone else designed and wrote, the flowers someone else grew and cut, the chocolates someone else made and stuffed with refined sugar.  What does that shit mean, anyway?  </p>
<p>Take the time to make something yourself, if you want to give a gift, or simply take your loved one for a walk on the beach and share some moments together which are infinitely more precious.</p>
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		<title>
		By: todd		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24972</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[todd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-24972</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hmmm....I&#039;m really conflicted about valentines day. It has certainly been ruined by hallmark but there&#039;s something cool about a holiday that is celebrated worldwide and that unites many people from different cultures and backgrounds into celebrating their love for their loved ones. It&#039;s a fun thought and its nice that its recognized by so many people and it makes me wonder if it would be as popular as it is without the efforts of the greeting card companies. What could be less harmless than a simple box of chocolates?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;.I&#8217;m really conflicted about valentines day. It has certainly been ruined by hallmark but there&#8217;s something cool about a holiday that is celebrated worldwide and that unites many people from different cultures and backgrounds into celebrating their love for their loved ones. It&#8217;s a fun thought and its nice that its recognized by so many people and it makes me wonder if it would be as popular as it is without the efforts of the greeting card companies. What could be less harmless than a simple box of chocolates?</p>
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		<title>
		By: cbeak		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24962</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cbeak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-24962</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24960&quot;&gt;cbeak&lt;/a&gt;.

Oops, that comment was not meant to go there, sorry!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24960">cbeak</a>.</p>
<p>Oops, that comment was not meant to go there, sorry!</p>
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		<title>
		By: cbeak		</title>
		<link>https://www.thinkingpoker.net/2012/02/on-valentines-day/#comment-24960</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cbeak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkingpoker.net/?p=8339#comment-24960</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think there are a lot of things working in favour of a bluff. KJo is one of the worst hands we (hero) show up with on the river here. After our flop call, our healthy turn bet should suggest that we have top pair that is value betting/protecting or better (e.g., a flush). The majority of straight draws (no spades) might be discounted on the turn somewhat because they lack clean outs and we might not be viewed as capable of making low equity bluffs. We might also not be expected to call pre-flop with some straight draws (like J9o, one spade) or for that matter bet turn with others (like our actual hand). Especially given our image, which I assume is good, following through on the river really looks like we have Qx or better, with KJo being quite rare.

The cool thing about this spot seems to be that even if villain believes we are bluffing, there aren&#039;t so many hands we can be bluffing with.* Arguably, this should mean villain should fold somewhat often. Parts of villain&#039;s range are not doing so well: overpairs now all lose; and trips lose to flushes and better, and villain is less likely to have trips with two Q&#039;s on board. Plus, we might expect villain to continue betting flushes on the turn, especially the low ones.

Given the overlay, that I think we can get a fold from enough of villain&#039;s range and a little lack of imagination, I would bet a &#039;normal&#039; amount -- e.g., 2/3 pot (30k). This doesn&#039;t seem to be a bad amount at all, given that villain can turn up with trickily played strong hands some of the time and that losing 30k (leaving villain a 20bb stack to work with) should provide sufficient disincentive for his curiousity. Also, we rep a wider value range (Qx and flushes) a bit more credibly compared to a bigger bet, e.g., the Qx might be somewhat worried about flushes.

Andrew, I would be interested to know your thoughts over the timing of your turn decisions. The fact that you took equally long to check and to call was pretty interesting, as presumably you made a plan ahead of checking so deciding what to do when facing a bet was a trivial decision, unless you changed your mind... But, maybe save that till Friday.

*Another point is that from villain&#039;s perspective, our perception of his range should be quite strong -- along the lines others have described (e.g., overpairs) -- yet, we are still betting.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are a lot of things working in favour of a bluff. KJo is one of the worst hands we (hero) show up with on the river here. After our flop call, our healthy turn bet should suggest that we have top pair that is value betting/protecting or better (e.g., a flush). The majority of straight draws (no spades) might be discounted on the turn somewhat because they lack clean outs and we might not be viewed as capable of making low equity bluffs. We might also not be expected to call pre-flop with some straight draws (like J9o, one spade) or for that matter bet turn with others (like our actual hand). Especially given our image, which I assume is good, following through on the river really looks like we have Qx or better, with KJo being quite rare.</p>
<p>The cool thing about this spot seems to be that even if villain believes we are bluffing, there aren&#8217;t so many hands we can be bluffing with.* Arguably, this should mean villain should fold somewhat often. Parts of villain&#8217;s range are not doing so well: overpairs now all lose; and trips lose to flushes and better, and villain is less likely to have trips with two Q&#8217;s on board. Plus, we might expect villain to continue betting flushes on the turn, especially the low ones.</p>
<p>Given the overlay, that I think we can get a fold from enough of villain&#8217;s range and a little lack of imagination, I would bet a &#8216;normal&#8217; amount &#8212; e.g., 2/3 pot (30k). This doesn&#8217;t seem to be a bad amount at all, given that villain can turn up with trickily played strong hands some of the time and that losing 30k (leaving villain a 20bb stack to work with) should provide sufficient disincentive for his curiousity. Also, we rep a wider value range (Qx and flushes) a bit more credibly compared to a bigger bet, e.g., the Qx might be somewhat worried about flushes.</p>
<p>Andrew, I would be interested to know your thoughts over the timing of your turn decisions. The fact that you took equally long to check and to call was pretty interesting, as presumably you made a plan ahead of checking so deciding what to do when facing a bet was a trivial decision, unless you changed your mind&#8230; But, maybe save that till Friday.</p>
<p>*Another point is that from villain&#8217;s perspective, our perception of his range should be quite strong &#8212; along the lines others have described (e.g., overpairs) &#8212; yet, we are still betting.</p>
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