Mailbag: Trying New Things

Thinking Poker MailbagI received this question in response to my latest strategy article, Trying New Things, which is now appearing in 2+2 Magazine.

Q: I read your article on 2p2’s magazine and I wanted to try something new. I determined what is the skill I want to improve in my game and before the tournament I set myself the goal to find weakness in my opponent’s game and try to exploit it.

With this in my mind, yesterday I played a tournament 5€ buy-in, full ring.

blind 150/300 15

I am in middle position with As 5c and 17,885. Villain is in the seat on my left with 18,250. It is the first level with ante and I played very tight since the beginning of the tournament.

I open min raised to 600, Villain raised to 1000, and everyone folded to me.

I usually call here getting 6:1, but I wanted to try something new, so I raised to 2500. I decided that it was a good spot to try something new because the min 3bet didn’t represent anything to me.

Villain called. I put him on a range of [66-TT, AJ+, KQ+].

Flop (3685) : Js Tc 6h. I bet 2000, Villain called.

I thought that my bet could make him fold [77-99], and I thought he could call with the rest of his range.

Turn (7685): Js Tc 6h 2s. We both checked.

I didn’t like this card because it didn’t change anything. My plan on the turn was : I check, if he bets I fold, if he checks I will bet 2/3 pot on a spade or a baby card to make him fold AK and AQ.

River Js Tc 6h 2s 6s. I bet 5000. Villain called and showed 88.

I know that I don’t represent a lot of strength with the check on the turn, but at this buy-in, generally the players are on level 1 on the thinking process. Usually I follow the common advice against these players: play tight in position and not bluff them, and it works. But I want to improve and play a better poker and I am sure it’s possible to build a stack without a good hand against these opponents.

Can you help me to see what did I do wrong in this hand, and can you tell if I am on the right way to improve my game in doing such things, or do you think that against small stakes player all I need to do is continue to play a solid game ?

Thanks,

Jean-Noël

A: Bonjour Jean-Noël, I’m glad to hear you were inspired by my article. Although I have a lot of criticisms about this hand, I want to emphasize that being willing to try new things and get creative is ultimately something that will serve you well. Don’t be afraid to make mistakes along the way, that’s how you learn (though you might consider moving down in stakes when you know you will be trying new things you aren’t sure about).

If you haven’t already, you should also have a look at my new Bluffing series on Tournament Poker Edge. I think it will help to illustrate some of what you could have done better in this hand.

OK, on to the hand:

1. Fold pre-flop. Although it’s correct to try to play more pots once antes are introduced, these are rather small antes, and A5o is an especially poor hand, especially with somewhat deep stacks. There are very few flops on which you can be comfortable playing a big pot, and it’s also difficult for you to have good equity when bluffing. So basically you can’t make good value hands or good bluffing hands.

2. “the min 3bet didn’t represent anything to me” Was there a reason for this? Looking for signs of weakness is an important component of finding a good bluffing spot, but I wonder how much cause you had to think he was weak. Had you seen him make larger raises with his nutted hands before? That would imply that he doesn’t have such a strong hand this time. Without that read, though, I think it’s a little premature to assume he’s weak just because of the small sizing. Many players at this level are very passive and a 3bet of any size is a sign of strength.

3. When you bet a little over half-pot on the flop, you need your opponent to fold a little more than 1/3 of the time to show a profit. If you only expect him to fold 77-99, that’s not going to be enough to make a bluff profitable. This is an especially good flop for the range you put your opponent on, and as you have basically no equity against his calling range, you should just give up now.

4. If you’re just trying to get him to fold AQ/AK on the river, do you need to bet 2/3 pot? Do you think he’d call with those hands if you bet 1/3 pot? And why only bluff spades and small cards? Won’t he fold AK to a bet if the river is an 8 or a 9?

Again, don’t be discouraged by the fact that you made a lot of mistakes here. Instead, think of this as four things you learned today, all because you tried something new and were ready to make mistakes!

4 thoughts on “Mailbag: Trying New Things”

  1. “I determined what is the skill I want to improve in my game and before the tournament I set myself the goal to find weakness in my opponent’s game and try to exploit it.”

    I think this is too broad of a goal to try to achieve in one tournament. Learning to recognize spots where an opponent’s range is too weak is a necessary skill for a winning poker player to develop in the long run, but takes tons of work. I would try to break this down into MUCH smaller pieces.

    Example: Suppose a villain c/r a lot of flops. He c/r with all his monsters including sets, 2prs, TPTK, combo draws, as well as TPWK and weaker draws. Because his c/r is so strong, it is likely his c/c range will be overly weak. Therefore, a good way to exploit this opponent is to double and triple barrel high card boards. [credit to Phil Galfond for this]

    Also, cash games may be better than tournaments to learn this skill. As discussed, different player’s will create ranges that are in fact too weak to take a lot of pressure. Tournament’s may offer sample sizes that are too small to recognize the type of patterns that you are looking for. In a cash game, you are likely to play many more hands with an opponent giving you more opportunities to dissect their play. This will improve your overall ability to recognize weak lines and carry over into tournament play.

    • Thank you Raphael for your advices.
      You are right, I must work on smaller pieces. I have one in mind, is to raise every limpers and see how I can manage to put a lot of pressure on them.
      I think you are tight, but I never play cash game, so I do not know if I want to try.
      If I find the time, I will try to create a post on the Poker Goals and Challenges’s forum on p2p.

  2. JeanNoel, I want to share a spot with you where I tried to do some hand reading and bluffing. Mine did not work out either. The best thing we can do is post the hands, hope that we can get help to understand the spot better, and try it again and again.

    Here’s mine.

    http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/hand/23395621

    I think the open and c-bet are fine.

    When he raises, I think he’s doing it because I c-bet so small, I’d been active, and I’d c-bet this flop regardless of my hand. I figured he’d just call with a K. He doesnt have KK or TT because he’d likely raise those preflop since I’d been active. He’s repping 55, two pair, or QJ. He has these or pure air. No marginal hand would check raise me on the flop. I’d expect his strong hands to bet on the turn and I’d happily fold or take it away from his air if he checks.

    When he checks the turn, I barrel to get him off of the air he raised flop with. I figured he has to give me credit for at least a K or A. When he just calls the turn on this wet board, I know he isn’t strong. I figured he either turned a heart draw with his air or he hit that A. Im leaning towards the A because a lot of people would shove turn with the heart draw.

    When he bets small on the river, I definitely dont think he has the hearts. I figured I could get him off of a weak ace with a shove since he put that scared little blocking bet out there.

    Apparently my soul is an open book.

    Keep at it bro. Sooner or later it will all click for us.

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