From the Desk of the Poker Philosopher

It was Razz, so obviously nothing too interesting happened. I felt like I ran terrible, but I think everyone feels that way when they play Razz. I'm not going to bore you with any bad stories. Naturally there were a ton of players calling down to chase ridiculous stuff like rough 9's.

Labels: FTOPS, Full Tilt Poker, poker, Razz, tournament

Stumble It!

Sklansky on Poker has not aged well. This isn’t to say that any of its content has been proven wrong, only that more recent publications and the resurgent popularity of big bet games have rendered much of the material irrelevant.

The section “Sklansky on Razz” is certainly the best material on that game in print, but it’s a game that’s rarely spread anymore. As for the other essays, they were even at the time of publication little more than Theory of Poker simplified and explained for beginners. The examples and many of the concepts are specific to fixed limit games, and some even more restricted to obsolete games like jacks-or-better five card draw.

More recent publications, some authored by Sklansky himself, cover this material in greater depth and nuance. Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, for instance, subsumes the tournament essays in this manual. And numerous books targeted to beginners in Hold ‘Em or other games, not to mention Theory of Poker, introduce concepts like pot odds, implied odds, expectation, and semi-bluffing more clearly, in greater detail, and with more relevant examples.

These essays would be of little interest to most serious players anyway. This isn’t to say that even experts always get them right, but they at least understand the concepts in theory, which is all that Sklansky’s very short essays address. Only beginners would find this material new or helpful, and many better books are now available to them.

The exception to all of this is the second half of the book, “Sklansky on Razz”. This is Sklansky at his best and is well worth the cost of the book to anyone who wants to succeed in this deceptively simple game.

Razz is a game well suited to Sklansky’s particular talent for identifying counter-intuitive but mathematically sound plays. Since there is only one kind of hand a player can make, deception and hand-reading are less important than in other forms of poker and “many general principles and concepts of poker can best be illustrated via the game of razz.”

Sklansky goes on to use the game to illustrate some nuances of pot odds, higher level thinking, relative position, range mixing, inducing mistakes, and ante stealing/defense. He doesn’t always draw the connection in so many words, but reading Sklansky’s thoughts on razz should help astute players better employ these concepts in any game.

For razz players, he also demonstrates some little known facts about the game. On fifth street, for instance, a four-card six is often a favorite over a rough made nine. And on third street, depending on which cards are dead, 8-6-4 can be a favorite over 3-2-A. Recognizing these situations better than one’s opponents can be very valuable, as they may happily but mistakenly cap the betting thinking they have the best of it.

It is this razz material that makes Sklansky on Poker potentially of interest to today’s poker player. The information from most of the other essays can be better gleaned from Theory of Poker, Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, and the better beginner’s books on the market.

Labels: book review, poker, poker strategy, Razz, tournament

Stumble It!

If you haven't picked up on the pattern yet, last night's $300 Razz tournament involved me running terribly against a bunch of atrocious calling stations. I'll try to include some discussion on a few interesting spots so that this isn't a pure whine. Oh and these aren't necessary in the order they occurred:

Nice Calls Sir

Hand #5257796611
Tournament - *Razz* (30/60), Ante 5, Bring-In 10

2DogsHumpin (Seat 1): 3,102
urbandb888 (Seat 2): 2,800
RandomGuy19 (Seat 3): 2,529
Lubidani (Seat 4): 2,890
the aviator1 (Seat 5): 3,626
mooseheads (Seat 6): 2,919
rickashay8 (Seat 7): 3,071
YoungSupremacy (Seat 8): 3,063

*3rd Street* - (1.33 SB)

2DogsHumpin: xx xx 9d___folds
urbandb888: Ad 9h 3s___calls
RandomGuy19: xx xx Jc___folds
Lubidani: xx xx Kd___*brings-in*___folds
the aviator1: xx xx 3h___completes
mooseheads: xx xx 9s___folds
rickashay8: xx xx 6s___calls
YoungSupremacy: xx xx Jh___folds

*4th Street* - (4.67 SB)

urbandb888: Ad 9h 3s 2h___*bets*
the aviator1: xx xx 3h 8h___calls
rickashay8: xx xx 6s 9c___folds

*5th Street* - (3.33 BB)

urbandb888: Ad 9h 3s 2h As___*bets*___raises
the aviator1: xx xx 3h 8h 7s___raises___calls

*6th Street* - (9.33 BB)

urbandb888: Ad 9h 3s 2h As 3c___bets
the aviator1: xx xx 3h 8h 7s Kh___*checks*___calls

*River* - (11.33 BB)

urbandb888: Ad 9h 3s 2h As 3c 8c___bets
the aviator1: xx xx 3h 8h 7s Kh xx___*checks*___calls

*Total pot:* (13.33 BB - 800)

Results:

Total pot 800 | Rake 0

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.

As we'll soon see, I chose the wrong guy to bluff. As in this hand, where he called me down all the way with an 8-7-6 when I'm showing A-2-3. The river is pretty close, but I don't need to succeed like 1/11 to show a profit, and I was hoping there was a chance he'd called along hoping to improve to a 7 and would an 8-7-6.


Bad Calls in a Limped Pot

Hand #5258549821
Tournament - *Razz* (80/160), Ante 15, Bring-In 25

2DogsHumpin (Seat 1): 2,891
urbandb888 (Seat 2): 2,155
RandomGuy19 (Seat 3): 3,081
Lubidani (Seat 4): 1,744
the aviator1 (Seat 5): 6,236
mooseheads (Seat 6): 1,458
rickashay8 (Seat 7): 4,269
YoungSupremacy (Seat 8): 2,166

*3rd Street* - (1.50 SB)

2DogsHumpin: xx xx 2s___calls
urbandb888: 6s 8d 7h___calls
RandomGuy19: xx xx 5s___folds
Lubidani: xx xx 9s___folds
the aviator1: xx xx Qc___*brings-in*
mooseheads: xx xx 2h___folds
rickashay8: xx xx 2d___folds
YoungSupremacy: xx xx 7s___folds

*4th Street* - (2.44 SB)

2DogsHumpin: xx xx 2s Tc___calls
urbandb888: 6s 8d 7h As___*bets*
the aviator1: xx xx Qc 6d___calls

*5th Street* - (2.72 BB)

2DogsHumpin: xx xx 2s Tc Kc___folds
urbandb888: 6s 8d 7h As 4d___*bets*
the aviator1: xx xx Qc 6d 7c___calls

*6th Street* - (4.72 BB)

urbandb888: 6s 8d 7h As 4d 4s___calls
the aviator1: xx xx Qc 6d 7c 3d___*bets*

*River* - (6.72 BB)

urbandb888: 6s 8d 7h As 4d 4s Js___checks
the aviator1: xx xx Qc 6d 7c 3d xx___*checks*

*Total pot:* (6.72 BB - 1,075)

Results:

Total pot 1,075 | Rake 0

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.

Seat 5: the aviator1 showed [5c 2c Qc 6d 7c 3d Ac] and won (1,075) with 6,5,3,2,A


Nice River, Sir

Hand #5258901686
Tournament - *Razz* (120/240), Ante 20, Bring-In 40

2DogsHumpin (Seat 1): 1,056
urbandb888 (Seat 2): 1,695
RandomGuy19 (Seat 3): 3,233
Lubidani (Seat 4): 469
the aviator1 (Seat 5): 7,146
mooseheads (Seat 6): 1,846
rickashay8 (Seat 7): 6,459
YoungSupremacy (Seat 8): 2,096

*3rd Street* - (1.33 SB)

2DogsHumpin: xx xx Jh___folds
urbandb888: 8s 5s 4c___calls___calls
RandomGuy19: xx xx Tc___folds
Lubidani: xx xx 3s___completes
the aviator1: xx xx Qs___*brings-in*___folds
mooseheads: xx xx 9s___folds
rickashay8: xx xx 4h___calls___calls
YoungSupremacy: xx xx Js___folds

*4th Street* - (4.67 SB)

urbandb888: 8s 5s 4c Ac___*bets*
Lubidani: xx xx 3s Qc___calls
rickashay8: xx xx 4h Jd___calls

*5th Street* - (3.83 BB)

urbandb888: 8s 5s 4c Ac 6c___*bets*
Lubidani: xx xx 3s Qc 9c___calls 209 (all-in)
rickashay8: xx xx 4h Jd 5h___calls

*6th Street* - (6.70 BB)

urbandb888: 8s 5s 4c Ac 6c 8d___*bets*___calls
Lubidani: xx xx 3s Qc 9c Jc___all-in
rickashay8: xx xx 4h Jd 5h Ah___raises

*River* - (10.70 BB)

urbandb888: 8s 5s 4c Ac 6c 8d 9h___*checks*___calls
Lubidani: xx xx 3s Qc 9c Jc xx___all-in
rickashay8: xx xx 4h Jd 5h Ah xx___bets

*Total pot:* (12.70 BB - 3,049)

Results:

Total pot 3,049 Main pot 1,547. Side pot 1,502. | Rake 0

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.

Lubidani: [Kd 7c 3s Qc 9c Jc Ad] - J,9,7,3,A
rickashay8 shows [9d 3d 4h Jd 5h Ah 2s] 5,4,3,2,A

Calling on 7th is pretty close when I brick, but I'm getting nearly 12:1 at that point, and as you can see, I did have the best hand until the river. It's very possible rick was raising for a free showdown with his smooth 9 when he didn't improve, though, meaning that I still can't beat anything when he bets.


Pushing an Edge

Hand #5258094676
Tournament - *Razz* (50/100), Ante 10, Bring-In 15

2DogsHumpin (Seat 1): 2,506
urbandb888 (Seat 2): 1,830
RandomGuy19 (Seat 3): 2,501
Lubidani (Seat 4): 2,584
the aviator1 (Seat 5): 5,396
mooseheads (Seat 6): 2,668
rickashay8 (Seat 7): 3,314
YoungSupremacy (Seat 8): 3,201

*3rd Street* - (1.60 SB)

2DogsHumpin: xx xx 8c___folds
urbandb888: 4h 2c 3c___raises
RandomGuy19: xx xx Kd___*brings-in*___folds
Lubidani: xx xx 8d___completes___calls
the aviator1: xx xx 6h___folds
mooseheads: xx xx 9c___folds
rickashay8: xx xx 7s___calls___calls
YoungSupremacy: xx xx 5h___folds

*4th Street* - (7.90 SB)

urbandb888: 4h 2c 3c Qh___calls___calls
Lubidani: xx xx 8d 7c___raises___calls
rickashay8: xx xx 7s 4s___*bets*___raises

*5th Street* - (8.45 BB)

urbandb888: 4h 2c 3c Qh 6s___raises
Lubidani: xx xx 8d 7c 9s___*bets*___calls
rickashay8: xx xx 7s 4s 7h___calls___calls

*6th Street* - (14.45 BB)

urbandb888: 4h 2c 3c Qh 6s Jc___calls
Lubidani: xx xx 8d 7c 9s 3d___*bets*
rickashay8: xx xx 7s 4s 7h Ah___calls

*River* - (17.45 BB)

urbandb888: 4h 2c 3c Qh 6s Jc Th___folds
Lubidani: xx xx 8d 7c 9s 3d xx___*bets*___raises
rickashay8: xx xx 7s 4s 7h Ah xx___raises___calls

*Total pot:* (23.45 BB - 2,345)

Results:

Total pot 2,345 | Rake 0
rickashay8 showed [5s 3s 7s 4s 7h Ah Ac] and won (2,345) with 7,5,4,3,A
Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.


Third street is actually kind of interesting here. Although I've got three to a wheel against an 8 and a 7, it's kind of a close 2-bet because my hand is kind of dead (ie a lot of low cards I would like to catch have been folding by other players). The thing is that my hand is strong enough to peel 4th even if I brick, so I might as well make the pot larger now since I'm already committed to seeing 5th.

Depending on which cards are dead, a four-card 6 is often favored over a made 8 on fifth street anyway, and with the guy holding a pair calling along as well, this is a clear value raise. But I just kept bricking.


Third Nuts No Good

And just for good measure, I bust out of the tournament when my third nuts on sixth street loses to the rivered second nuts:

Hand #5258925452
Tournament - *Razz* (120/240), Ante 20, Bring-In 40

2DogsHumpin (Seat 1): 1,036
urbandb888 (Seat 2): 475
RandomGuy19 (Seat 3): 3,213
the aviator1 (Seat 5): 7,086
mooseheads (Seat 6): 1,826
rickashay8 (Seat 7): 8,288
YoungSupremacy (Seat 8): 2,076

*3rd Street* - (1.17 SB)

2DogsHumpin: xx xx Qc___folds
urbandb888: 3d 5c 2h___raises
RandomGuy19: xx xx 3h___folds
the aviator1: xx xx 8h___folds
mooseheads: xx xx 4d___folds
rickashay8: xx xx Kc___*brings-in*___calls
YoungSupremacy: xx xx 2c___completes___calls

*4th Street* - (7.17 SB)

urbandb888: 3d 5c 2h Ad___*bets*
rickashay8: xx xx Kc 2s___calls
YoungSupremacy: xx xx 2c 3s___calls

*5th Street* - (5.08 BB)

urbandb888: 3d 5c 2h Ad 6c___calls 95 (all-in)
rickashay8: xx xx Kc 2s Kh___folds
YoungSupremacy: xx xx 2c 3s 4s___*bets*

*6th Street* - (5.88 BB)

urbandb888: 3d 5c 2h Ad 6c Kd___all-in
YoungSupremacy: xx xx 2c 3s 4s 4c

*River* - (5.88 BB)

urbandb888: 3d 5c 2h Ad 6c Kd 7s___all-in
YoungSupremacy: xx xx 2c 3s 4s 4c xx

*Total pot:* (5.88 BB - 1,410)

Results:

Total pot 1,410 | Rake 0

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.

Seat 8: YoungSupremacy showed [7d 6s 2c 3s 4s 4c Ac] and won (1,410) with 6,4,3,2,A

Labels: poker, poker strategy, Razz, session review, tournament

Stumble It!

The Razz chapter of the Full Tilt Poker Strategy Guide: Tournament Edition is presented in a unique way, with Michael Craig summarizing, narrating, and quoting a conversation between Ted Forrest and Huck Seed. Given my extensive involvement with competitive debate, it's probably no surprise that I find this a very promising format. I only wish that Craig had played a more active moderating role in order to encourage the two pros to delve deeper into their differences and explore their competing perspectives. What we get instead is a series of hastily explained concepts that are usually thought-provoking, occasionally misleading, and sometimes even both.

One thing upon which both players agree is the importance of the exposed cards in determining how to play on 3rd street. Obviously I knew this was a factor to consider, but their conversation really hammered home what a huge consideration they could be, in extreme cases making a three-card seven either unplayable or a favorite over A-2-3. As Forrest puts it, "When the good players get aggressive, you can put them on duplicated cards in the hole. When a beginning player gets aggressive, it's more likely he has A-2 in the hole." Unfortunately, the chapter examines only extreme examples. It would be interesting to know how 4-5-7 rates against A-2-3 when there are two dead 4's and a dead 7 instead of three 4's, three 5's, and three 7's.

The pair consider other 3rd street decisions such as how to defend the bring-in and how to adjust to larger or smaller antes. To my surprise, they both contradicts Sklansky's well-known advice to never open limp in Razz and suggest open limping for a variety of reasons: to trap an aggressive player, to cut down on variance, to set up a cheap steal on 4th street, or to see what the other low cards do before getting overly involved.

The question of courting variance by pushing edges on early streets versus playing cautiously and passing up favorable odds in order to maintain a stack proves a contentious one. Seed recalls some tournaments where he was able to steal his way to the final table with no big confrontations and argues that when the stealing is good, "I don't want to gamble with a certain percentage of my stack." He even claims he would pitch a live A-2-3 on 3rd with a raise and reraise in front of him simply to avoid playing a big pot, even as a substantial favorite.

Forrest clearly disagrees and insists that even good players need to gamble when they have big odds in their favor. Craig quotes a longish conversation on the subject, but it is disappointingly lacking in substance. Instead of delving into the details of how an edge might be won back later or what situations, if any, might be passed, the two ask each other loaded questions and repeat tired tournament cliches. Forrest gets in a good last word, though: "I think I could make money playing Huck's discards."

The entire passage proves misleading because they never mention that only an exceptional player like Seed should even consider passing on a profitable spot in any kind of tournament. There's a very real danger that inexperienced readers may take Seed's advice out of context and make some atrocious folds as a result.

Their discussion is much more productive on the subject of playing a short stack. Both ask and answer some good questions about how short is short and how one should play with stacks of various sizes.

Overall, however, there are a lot more questions than answers, in no small part because the two men never explore in-depth their disagreements with each other and with other authors on the subject. There's insufficient discussion, for instance, of the survival versus accumulation debate and no mention of Sklanky's well-known objection to open-limping, despite the affinity of both pros for the play. Given how well suited the dialectic format is for investigating differences of opinion, these are particularly glaring omissions

Also absent is almost any discussion of how to play after 3rd street, even how to handle such common situations as a strong starting hand that bricks on 4th, what to do when you appear to catch well but actually pair a hole card, what to do when both players brick 4th in a heads up pot, how to handle various draws on 5th and 6th streets, and how to play the river. It might be argued that this chapter is just a glimpse into an interesting conversation between two top pros and not intended as a comprehensive introduction to tournament razz. That would be fine if there were another chapter that covered the game in a more traditional way.

Still, this chapter does contain a lot of interesting material, and despite its shortcomings, it does provide a glimpse into how two different players approach a Razz tournament. Once again, Forrest gets in a resounding last word:

"[T]he average player in these razz tournaments is pretty weak. So playing by the book should be good enough to build up your chips. But when you match up against good readers, good razz players who have a little speed to their game, you will be at the mercy of getting good starting cards.

Razz in one of the purest forms of poker, because the good players will make the money and the bad players will lose the money. It's a beautiful, beautiful form of poker."

Labels: book review, poker, poker strategy, Razz, tournament

Stumble It!