Edit: Hero is in BB. Sorry I should have made that more explicit.
It’s been a few weeks, but “What’s Your Play?” is back with a vengeance! This is another hand that we’ll look at over multiple streets. It’s based on a hand that I played yesterday. I’m the Hero, not sure what to say about my image at this point. Personally I think I’ve been rather quiet, but people often expect aggression from me anyway just because I’m in my 20s (for a few more months).
Villain 1 (UTG+1, 45K stack) is probably mid-30s, part native Hawaiian and part mountain – he’s a big guy, is what I’m saying. I don’t think he’s a professional, but he did ask me earlier in the day if my last name was Brokos and told me that he enjoyed my articles.
Villain 2 (UTG+2, 10K stack) is a petite Georgian in her 60’s whose son, a professional, got her into poker. She won her seat in a local bar league and plays about the way you’d expect, which is to say extremely tight and straightforward.
Villain 3 (MP2, 30K stack) is a slightly tilty, slightly grumpy, slightly heavyset bearded guy in his late 20’s. He seems like a pro and talks the talk but isn’t actually all that good. He’s on the loose passive side and too willing to play hands from out of position.
Villain 4 (BTN, 75K stack) is an extremely loose aggressive young French or French Canadian, probably a pro. He’s got some leaks and some sizing tells but doesn’t play all that badly and hates to give up on a pot, which can make him awfully tough to play against.
Villain 5 (SB, 22K stack) is slightly tilty, very grumpy, late 20’s American pro. He also plays a lot of hands and overall is probably the best of my opponents, though he thinks he’s better than he is and makes some loose calls on early streets on that basis that I doubt he can actually show a profit with.
It’s level 3 of the WSOP Main Event. Blinds are 150/300 without an ante. Villain 1 open limps. That’s not unheard of for our table – maybe 5% of pots were open limped – nor for this Villain, though he’s generally pretty tight aggressive and raises more often than he limps. The others limp around in order, until action is on Hero.
Hero (60K stack) has Ac Kd in the BB. What’s your play and why?
Please post your thoughts, comments, and questions here. I’ll be back on Thursday with my own thoughts, the actual pre-flop action, and the flop.
I think you want to raise to 1700-1800. The reason is the following:
Villain 1 (UTG+1, 45K stack) sounds like he’s limping all kinds of stuff. I’d be raising because you’ll have position and most likely the best hand. (Most likely to call/fold)
Villain 2 (UTG+2, 10K stack) You’ll know what to do if she 4b’s or leads a ragged flop. Sounds like the easiest to play against. (Most likely going to fold)
Villain 3 (MP2, 30K stack) I think he’ll call and try to out play you on the flop. Sounds like he’d call with dominated hands. (Most likely going to call and possibly check call 2 streets)
Villain 4 (BTN, 75K stack) I think again he’s going to call and depending on the number of opponents and flop texture might try to out play us out of position. (Most likely going to call and possible lead on flop if he thinks it might be right)
Villain 5 (SB, 22K stack) Again sounds like he’s going to call with a wide range of hands so we should be looking to get value out of dominate hands or to loose of calls pre.
All in all it sounds like you have a lot of people that either play straight forward or try to get to fancy. I like raising to get more money into the pot while we’re most likely ahead and we’re most likely going to have position for the rest of the hand so we can pot control it if we either get a bad flop or can let it go if we see a lot of action we don’t like from certain players.
hero is bb. not button
Sorry that I missed that we were the BB. I’m sure it was because I was reading to fast or part of my distractions.
Raising I think will narrow our hand down and some of the more savvy players might be able to play better/perfect against us.
Although the softer spots I’d still like to get more money in pre-flop since it appears that the table is fairly loose on pre-flop calls.
Even though we’re in the BB I think I’d still like a raise and go from there. I’d still like to get more money into the pot while we’re most likely ahead of say KQ – K10, 109, 76, A2s – A10s.
It’s also even possible that we get some of our tougher opponents fold where playing a bigger pot OOP vs the softer opponents won’t be so bad.
I think I check. The main reason is I don’t want to play out of position against villain 4, due to his description and stack size. I’d be more inclined to raise if he wasn’t in the pot. But even if he wasn’t, AKo isn’t a hand I like to play out of position in a big pot when we are this deep. Also, I’d be more inclined to raise if it was AKs as then at least you have a chance to get some flops where you have semi-bluff opportunities.
Not sure why Shawn thinks you are in position here. Since you are in the BB you need to (ala Magicman) punish the limpers with a bet of at least 1200+ or larger. You have a premium hand but need to weed out a few here so that you can at least find out who is serious about their holdings. Problem with that is that once you get one caller, the price to ‘limp’ in again against the raise looks good fairly quick, even for those who may not know any of the math … ‘wow, thats alot of chips, I better get in there for some bingo’.
You should know after 4+ hours with these folks if they will think this is a steal play, but you could pick up the Button regardless as he does have some chips to float a Flop with. Have you raised your BB much previously? If so, what was the bet sizing at that time … is your table smart enough to know that you will put out a larger raise the more people that are in the pot? If so, we can push to 1600+ for a bet size.
What are we going to do when we face a 3-bet? Nobody really looks appealing to flip with except maybe the SB … is it too early in the tournament to use AK as a ‘staple’ all-in holding?
I probably raise here 80% of the time and check 20% and pray. Unless you have the image to allow you to lead-out heavy on a high board, then you must raise as they wont believe you didn’t raise pre-Flop with such good cards. If you check, then I would probably check the Flop the opposite (80%) and bet out 20% in order to line-up the check raise if you are still faced with multiple opponents on a favorable board. Bet 1675 …
I raise to (5*300)+900=2400….so like 2100.
Playing out of position sucks, playing AK unsuited 6 ways sucks worse 🙂
Haven’t visited your site in a while. Like the new look and cool column.
This spot kinda sucks. We’ve got a hand, but the pre flop action and being OOP are a problem. Most of the time you are either going to have to take this down with a PF raise, or hit the flop. From your descriptions of the villains, I don’t think you are going to take the pot with a raise here, and you risk getting 3b by the Frenchman and that would be painful. It does depend of course on the table history (people expect a steal raise from the BB in this spot once in awhile–is it standard to have such a big family pot at your table?)
I’ve played tourneys where the guy with AK limps (checks in this case) in this spot and then brings the Spanish Inquisition later in the hand.
My plan is to check. Then hit the flop. Then avoid someone hitting a set or their kicker (!) and get value from KJ or a dominated suited A7 that thought limping was a viable option in level 3 of the main event. Easy game.
Somehow I don’t think you’re really looking to play a huge pot OOP with such a reverse implied holding as AKo with a 200BB stack this early. I’d be tempted to either check and disguise my holding (no one is going to put you on AK in this spot and your perceived range widens for not only this hand but for the rest of the day) – or just make one of those smaller, annoying pot-sweetening raises just to 1000-1200 that will get called in a bunch of spots.
At least then, if you hammer the flop, there will be enough in the pot to make it worthwhile – if you whiff, no big deal, it’s 3-4BB – and if the spot looks good, you can play poker and try to muscle your way to a win.
I just can’t see making a “standard raise” to 1700-2100 b/c you’re going to get called in at least one spot as deep as UTG and the Button are – and then in many ways it doesn’t matter if you have AKo or not, you’re OOP in a raised pot with deep stacks – and going to make your life a lot harder than it needs to be at what sounds like a table you can chip up at with very little variance.
Long story short – Position matters more than holding at this MTT stage and stack size. Adjust accordingly.
My first reaction was to say pop it to $1800!… But then I thought, what happens if you get three bet? This deep might be better to play and hop to punish an A8-A10 or K10/KJ kind of hand if you flop good. I also think checking here hides your hand very well!
I definitely agree with checking here. AKo OOP is not a fun spot to be in with that many limpers in the pot, and I feel a raise only gets you in trouble because you know at least one, maybe two players will call, and if the callers happen to be the competent ones at the table, it may be hard to put them on an exact range. Checking here allows you to represent a lot more hands in case you whiff the flop, because you really can have anything in that spot. If you raise and then get a low board, chances are nobody is going to believe a c-bet on the flop and a check on the flop turns your hand face-up. Worst case is you miss, lose your big blind and move on to the next hand without anybody knowing you checked AK. Checking isn’t weak and like someone mentioned earlier, your range widens considerably for the rest of the time you’re at that table if you end up getting to showdown. The benefits of checking outweigh the benefits of raising.
I check. We stand to get called in multiple spots by tough players – I’m concerned with villains 3,4,and 5 here. I think raising projects more information about our hand than we get back about theirs, and worse yet we have pretty much the hand we are representing (or are least most likely to get put on). With that said and with our position in the hand we stand to make smaller mistakes by keeping it small here – out of position with pretty much the hand we are representing against multiple tough aggressive players in a bloated pot isn’t the easiest spot.
hmm, i guess this is why i’m not a good tournament player… i would think a big raise, probably like 2400 or so to compensate for being oop… but i guess i kinda understand what people are saying about the stack sizes… but i don’t see any hand being ahead of ako unless utg limp/raises…
ps. i had my biggest positive result this past weekend, played 5/10 and won 3.2k… i did suck out on a big pot in a set over set situation but overall i thought i could hang with the big boys…
knuckle it and see the flop.
Really ? 5 guys limping ? It’s like riding a bike with no brakes in this spot. I would rather face death in a limo.
3 points which were made I agree with :
– We have no fold equity once one of them chooses to call
– Our hand is more concealed by checking
– It won’t even give me added information (even if raising for info is no good but if it can be done while getting some value from my hand I can take it).
I would also add that we would be tested by baguette and perhaps grumpy #5 on the flop if we raise pre because of the information we gave (I’m french I can call myself baguette, right?). They would perhaps be reluctant to bet too much on an unraised pot if let’s say we have a JQ4 flop allowing us to draw cheaply.
– We keep the pot low which gives us more room to play poker
– We have a surprise factor if we hit two pairs, a straight or a full house
– It’s easier to fold if there is too much action on the flop since we just put the big blind (Well for me it’s important)
A check it is !
I think we are giving up way to much value from our hand if we check. Plus the only viallain that can put us at risk is villain 4 so we do have fold equity against the others. We’re not suited so the best we can really hope for is 2 pair which is vulenerable oop to four limpers especially if the flop isn’t rainbow. Any bigger flop for us cripples the deck and we get no action.
I’d raise to 3x + 5 so $2400. If we get 3+ callers flopping top pair is easy to get away from if facing aggression.
I also completely disagree that we have no information on anyone elses hand here.
#1 would need a decent hand to limp early so: any pair, suited connector, suited broadway, maybe suited A. He’s first to react to our raise and it’d be tough for him to call since his position also sucks. If he raises I’d fold.
#2 with only 10k would be calling off 24% of her stack so it’d be raise or fold for her.
#3 would have a very wide range after two limpers and may be on tilt. With 100bb he may well call with a lot of dominated hands so lots of value for us if we get heads up or 3 handed on the flop.
#4 could have ATC but since he’s so normally aggressive he likely has garbage otherwise he’d have raised himself. Probably will only call with two callers in front of him with some kind of sc down through unsuited 2 gappers or a tiny pair.
#5 also showed a lot of weakness limping in the sb with only 22k so again raise or fold for him against our raise unless we get a lot of callers in which case we’re pretty much done with the hand anyway.
So as far as I’m concerned it’s an easy raise otherwise you’re just playing with scared money.
Early stages of ME (deep stacks and two hour levels – not to mention the satelitel winners that can’t fold) are for busting one pair hands, not getting them busted.
Check and try to flop a hidden monster.
Be careful!
If we flop TPTK, control the size of the pot by trying to get a couple of streets of value from dominated hands, but be very wary of 2P+ hands depending on the action.
If we meet much resistance post flop, folding TPTK is the prudent play.
I think I’m with most of the comments so far, in that I would check this and hope for two pair or better on the flop. I could see raising here, but for me anything more than 1500 would be really out of character so the raise would be more for range-balancing as well as pot-building. I’d still hope for 2pr or better.
Raising opens the possibility of a big three-bet from Villain 4, which is not something I want to play against out of position… especially when I have position on him in 80% of hands.
So I probably call 80% and raise 20% and brace myself for some serious post-flop folding.